Metro Mail vs. Windows Live Mail

I'm new to Windows 8 and installed my mail accounts to the start screen mail with some difficulty, since most of my mail accounts are local accounts. I required ALL of the account info to make those accounts work. Mission accomplished. I do like that the messages are right there when I sign in, and the onscreen reminders as each message comes in. Kind of neat.

Now, I find a lot of features missing in this barebones Metro Mail, such as moving messages around, attaching files, etc. (Maybe I just haven't found them yet???) I would like to also run these mail accounts in Windows Live Mail on the desktop side, just for the flexibility and tools that Windows Live Mail gives me. I installed Windows Live Mail and it imported my email accounts, because I had a backup of the store folder from my XP computer in my documents.

My question is: Is there going to be a conflict with having these same accounts on both ends of the Windows 8 spectrum? Will new mail go to the Start Screen Mail, or the Windows Live Mail, or the one I open up first, or all of the above? I'm confused. Thanks in advance for clarification. judson

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I have posted this question in two different CNET forums - "E-mail, chat, & VoIP" and "Windows 7" - but have received no response to either. Thought I might have more success here.

I am currently using Windows Mail on Vista Home Premium. I've seen numerous reports that Windows Mail will not be offered as a part of Windows 7 and that users will need to use a different email client - possibly Windows Live Mail. Since I plan to upgrade to Windows 7 soon, should I go ahead and leisurely get my email converted from Windows Mail to Windows Live Mail now while I am still on Vista? Seems like that would be safer, since once I'm on Windows 7 I won't be able to run Windows Mail in case something goes wrong or I forgot to export something.


I recently bought a new computer and have Windows 7 after many years of Windows XP and an old version of Windows Live Mail.

My question is about sending pics directly in the text of an e-mail via Windows Live Mail. In the old version of Live Mail, you could send individual pics directly in the e-mail and even place captions under each pic. The new version of Live Mail seems to only let you send pics as an attachment or as a photo album. And I don't see any way to place captions under each pic. Am I missing something? ANyone know how to do this?

My boss recently got a new computer, and had to import all her old e-mails to Windows Live Mail. But there is a problem when she tries viewing some of these.

Let's say she has a folder with three e-mails, one with the subject line "e-mail 1", the other with "e-mail 2" and the third with "e-mail 3". If she clicks on any of the e-mails in that folder, only "e-mail 1" will be displayed. So if she clicks on "e-mail 2" the viewing pane will still only show "e-mail 1" - subject line and content and all (but in the list they still have their original subject lines, senders etc.)

I hope that my explanation was somewhat understandable. We have no idea what to do about this, so hopefully some of you guys will know. We have tried importing the e-mails again, several times, but it doesn't help. On her old computer nothing is wrong (it's about the only thing that does work there...). When double-clicking the e-mail so that it opens in a new window the wrong e-mail is still displayed. I cannot think of anything else to do at this point, does anyone have an idea?

Undeletable 'ghost' e-mails in Windows Live Mail

By Fred Langa

Many things changed as Outlook Express and Hotmail evolved into Windows Live Mail — but some things stayed the same.

One annoyance that hung around is a database error that causes ghost e-mails, which won't easily go away.
The full text of this column is posted at'ghost'-e-mails-in-windows-live-mail/ (paid content, opens in a new window/tab).

Columnists typically cannot reply to comments here, but do incorporate the best tips into future columns.

I can recieve but not send E-mail using windows live mail. I Found a web page from windows help that said to open live mail from START ..All programs .. windowlive mail .. click on TOOLS ..Account .. mail .. Properies.. server, but i do not find the tool tab.
the problem is with SMPT not listing how can I enter this informatin

Hello Folks,

Beware of the scam e-mail about Windows Live is shutting down and asking for your username, passwords etc. Please stay away from such mails.

More information: Beware of Windows Live Account Shutdown Scam |

Between written lines in messages
Windows Live Mail removes and doesn't show the empty Lines
in sended mails..

Using Windows Live Mail 2011 Build15.4.3538.0513on Windows 7.

İs there a remedy for that, help please..

Just purchased HP Pavilion with Windows7 Home. Have been using Firefox on other 2 systems (xp), but use Outlook Express. Windows 7 comes with no mail reader and am questioning if should make move to Thunderbird. Too, just purchased a Zune and appears to require a Windows Live ID (available if sign up for Hotmail?).

Have no problems using gmail or yahoo mail accounts, but am seeking advice on new mail reader and the Windows Live ID (which is totally confusing to me).

I do not use Messenger (or any other IM clients) and these "Essentials" programs offered by Microsoft -- Windows Live Mail, Live Messenger, Live Writer, etc. -- just do not appear very attractive given some of the other third-party programs available for Windows.

Wife uses Mac Snow Leopard and iTunes.


I just downloaded the beta of Windows Live Essentials 2011 including Windows Live Mail. If you have tried and like the ribbon on Office 2007 or 2010, you will like Windows Live Essentials 2011. It does have a ribbon like interface. I have just begun exploring this beta version. Check it out!



I selectively downloaded just the apps I wanted, Windows Live Mail 2011, Windows Live Photo Gallery 2011 and Windows Live Movie Maker 2011.

I wasn't sure if this should be in General Productivity, or Beta Software, or perhaps Graphics/Multimedia. It could fit any of these categories, but I figured General Productivity might get it more exposure.

I have recently changed my password twice, due to a hacking problem, my mistake.
I note that in My Account, I have a Unique ID allocated by Hotmail.
My Account also offers me the ability to change my "Windows Live ID" - what I call my e-mail address, ie. the bit that ends in
I would like to change this windows live ID. I have had it for over 6 years and a clear out is called for. However, I must not loose my existing folders etc.
If I change my Windows Live ID, (but keep The Unique ID issued by hotmail) will I loose all my current folders and all the information stored in them plus all the e-mails in my current inbox??

I do not want to close the account, all I would like to do is change my e-mail address/windows live ID without losing all my old e-mails that I have not deleted.

I now have completed my transition on three pcs from Win XP to Win 7. I want to keep many of the folders on the three pcs synced, including some data folders (primatily Word, Excel, PowerPoint, photos) as well as my Outlook 2010 .pst file.

Question: which is better for this application: using the sync capabilities of Windows 7 Homegroups or the Windows Live Mesh facility in Windows Live? ...or are there pluses and minuses for each.


I was looking at a vehicle tracking device I was trying out today for the manufacture, and the ASP is using Windows Live Local to show the "dots on the map". I use Windows Live Local in Outlook, but never have zoomed in to far. Today I did, and was flabbergasted to say the least at how clear the map view was, and what surprised me most, was that I zoomed in far enough to actually see my car parked next to my wifes. Looks like my stepdaughter parked mine though I then went over to Google earth, and what a difference. Google earth maps were not as clear as though in WLL when zoomed in, and Google didnt seem to be as up to date either. I know this because of the difference in appearance of not only my deck, but of other homes around mine, and I dont see either of our cars. Are MS and Google both using the same service?
Just my worth and observation

I have reserved a great deal of time not passing judgement on Windows 8, but so far I am not as enthused as, perhaps, I should be. This is not to say that I have given up on Windows 8, but for me, the Consumer Preview just isn't doing it. The main problem, of course, for me, and I suspect many others, is not so much the lack of Start Orb, but the Metro UI itself. Please allow me to explain:

Is Windows 8 a service, a product, or both?

I have discussed this quite entangling issue to some length with others in confidence, and have found myself to be disappointed with Metro UI. Some concerns that I see myself and others having is the Metro UI as a service platform for Windows Live. It is clear to me that this is likely the reason that Metro UI has been embedded into the operating system. While its usability is no doubt optimized for touch screens and next generation human interface devices, I find myself frustrated with the pre-installed applications in the Windows 8 Consumer Preview. In fact, I find myself quite annoyed, and in some cases, startled by what happens when you link your Windows Live ID to Microsoft Windows 8.

In Microsoft Windows 98 SE, upon launching Internet Explorer 5, one of the first screens a user saw was:

"Welcome to MSN Internet Access"
"Get fast, reliable Internet access and e-mail from Microsoft."

During that time, it was uncommon for someone to be on a LAN (local area network) using a router. A LAN would actually have to be manually set up, and so Microsoft attempted to use MSN as an Internet Service Provider to give you dial-up access to the Internet using a dial-up modem.

However, this terminology is telling to me. The issues with Active Desktop from the Windows 9x series of operating systems have not been lost on me. In this context, I am mindful of the fact that Microsoft has attempted to control the desktop, and did make an early bid to control and monetize on the Internet, from its early ages. This is not so much condemnation of Microsoft as it is a realization that Microsoft is a business: just like Google and Facebook.

But what was once seen as a massive attempt to take over the Internet by a corporation that controls the majority of the operating system market, now seems to be getting a welcome reception with bells and whistles from a new generation, corporations, media, and people planning on selling books off their review sites. Indeed, even Paul Thurrott threw me for a loop in one of his more recent reviews, when he concluded something like (paraphrase) "More soon... I have a book to write! (Windows 8 Secrets)".

I have always admired Paul, and his contributions with reviews and early access to Microsoft software. In fact, I have nothing against the guy. But it is true. He has a book to write. About all of the secrets of Windows 8. Much of that review was spent explaining what certain features do. And why they actually may be relevant. To me, this was a sharp departure from highlighting some of the improvements that could be found in the OS or talking about faster benchmarks and better ease of use. What I saw was a middle-of-the-road exploration of features that are so difficult to interpret or understand, even though they are deeply embedded into the operating system, that he has to go around telling you what they are for.

Most of the benchmarks performed on the CP show that there is a small performance blow in comparison to Windows 7, thus far. The system does not run any faster, but boot times have been expedited by code optimization. We have seen this before, with other Windows releases besides Windows 7. One major drag on the operating system seems to be battery usage. The results seem to be inconclusive in this realm, with one site showing better returns, and another site showing massive battery consumption compared to Windows 7. Even though memory deduplication is supposed to improve battery life, benchmarks show either less battery utilization, or much more.

Better Battery Life:
Hands on with Windows 8 CP: Battery life test | ITworld

Less Battery Life:
Windows 8 Consumer Preview: A Quick Look at Battery Life (Updated) | Your source for downloading popular benchmarks

Then there is the whole idea of interest in this OS:

windows 8 cp vs 7 vs xpsp3 benchmarks? - Neowin Forums

Huh? What is going on here? Where is the main interest in the system that we saw with the likes of Windows 7 and even Windows Vista? Windows Vista was a major flop for Microsoft, and it was released years after Windows XP. Still, it offered robust security, and was a step in the right direction for many of us. This is because Windows XP was released in October 2001, and something had to go in the right direction after so much time. Now, with Windows 7 only a couple years old, one is left to ask whether they even need a new operating system. With five years of time between Windows XP and Windows Vista, we still saw big manufacturers like Dell and HP offering downgrades to Windows XP - which many businesses took to save money, at their own peril. But Windows 7 offered something its predecessor, Windows Vista, could not offer. And that was performance on par with Windows XP, a much more slick look, and virtualization technology that would allow anyone with a fairly decent computer system to run, not just a legacy Windows XP application, but the entire Windows XP operating system, in a virtual machine inside Windows 7.

My first point was about Windows 8 as a service, and that is where I also run into some difficulty swallowing the results. Windows 8, when connected with a Windows Live account, seems to want to download your life from Facebook. The "People" Metro application runs a Facebook-based application that, with your consent, downloads all of your information from Facebook and syndicates it to your Windows Live page and Windows Live Messenger. It then uses that information to help you find your "people", by literally just taking all of the data off of your Facebook account. Then, your Windows Live status page becomes something of a Facebook clone. You can find even more people by performing the same task on LinkedIn, and presumably, in the future, all other services, perhaps maybe Google. But what if they let you link Google as well? Then, you can just access everything from "People", which is your Windows Live Messenger status page. What incentive do those other sites have to continue to develop their own social networking sites?

Next up was the product placement in Metro UI applications. When going to video, I found advertisements for popular television shows like The Walking Dead on AMC. It appears that you will eventually be able to purchase video content from this store, and watch videos on your computer. Where will this content come from? Microsoft, of course. This would not be a problem for me, if other services did not exist, like Netflix, for this very purpose. Then, going to Music doesn't show any advertisements just yet - but it does show a blank user library, where you can't add any music to it unless you go into the Desktop any way. Chances are this will be changed, but that doesn't discount the fact that over a decade of software development went into Windows Media Player, which has taken almost a dozen versions for any serious audiophile to even remotely take into consideration. Most will still jump over to iTunes, Winamp, and foobar. Does the Music app interact in some way with Windows Media Player? Is Windows Media Player being phased out? Is Microsoft going to offer its own music service now? We are left to try to figure this out.

You may be wondering where this is going. For me, any way, controlling the presentation means controlling the content. I am very pleased that services have been created like Steam for games and Spotify for music. With these programs, you are able to purchase music as a service. You are also able to purchase and download the full version of games. This software is fantastic, has its own interface, and offers remarkable service when you create an account. You are free to buy stuff, or never do that at all. You can take advantage of social networking within these services. But the great thing about these programs, in my opinion, has always been that you can install and uninstall them at your leisure. Thus, I ask the question, why can't Metro UI itself, just be an icon on the desktop, and a component of Windows that can be removed at any time? After testing the Windows Live features in the built-in Microsoft apps, I am left to make a conclusion I don't really want to make. That conclusion is that because Microsoft could not market social networking to the masses on par with Facebook or Google+, and because the company could not market their operating system to phones and tablets, they have decided to use forced obsolescence to make sure that everyone on the entire planet that buys a PC desktop or laptop computer, besides Linux users, will be forced to interact with their online services like Windows Live and Bing.

When I use the term forced obsolescence, I specifically state that Windows 8 is being designed to make Windows 7 obsolete - eventually. While the touch screen features are great, they seem to be an excuse for giving us a brand new version of Active Desktop. However, this time, everyone actually uses the Internet, and bandwidth/connection speed/throughput is no longer a major concern.

I am left to imagine an Internet where everyone who used a Microsoft Windows computer signed up for MSN Internet Access in Windows 98 and never bought a router. What if everyone in the world was OK with Microsoft placing advertisements for their own or preferred online services in all of their applications years ago? Well, you'd never have Facebook, Google, Yahoo, or a number of other companies. Everyone would be using MSN Search (Bing), Windows Live, Windows Live Messenger, and Windows Live Mail (Hotmail). I am reminded of America Online.

I have never really minded that Microsoft sells their online services to the world. Windows Live has always been something I considered a decent alternative to Google. However, I do have a problem with the operating system that I use also being designed directly to connect to a slew of services I do not use, and likely never will. This includes everything I listed above about Windows Live. This integration of applications that are dependent on Windows Live is a sharp contrast from Windows 7, and I, at least right now, would have major privacy issues divulging all of my Facebook information, online information, and handing it over to Windows Live. I like the fact that I can use multiple social networks, and that I have options. I use Windows Live for a variety of reasons, but I would never want it to be the only option on my phone. much less my desktop. I would want to be able to uninstall software applications associated with Live.

Because Microsoft controls the operating system market, they have decided to expand their business and compete in other areas. This includes gaming consoles, phones, and tablets. I have never taken issue with this, but I do take issue when these services are being bundled and forced down my throat in an OS release. I am reminded of how, on nearly every operating system installation I performed for years, I would have to be sure to remove the "Online Services" section from Microsoft Windows. These "Online Services" included America Online, AT&T WorldNet, CompuServe, and Prodigy.

Today, the desktop is being phased out. Many Windows 8 Consumer Preview users have found this to be a difficult issue to deal with. They claim they prefer the traditional desktop and Start Menu. I find that to be true, but for different reasons. At the click of a few buttons, in order to use the People app in Windows, Microsoft downloaded nearly the entire contents of my online Facebook account. They downloaded my data from LinkedIn. And they turned it into a Windows Live service. When I go to the Videos app, they're trying to sell me movies and TV shows when I already have Netflix. When I go to the desktop, I'm led to believe that the entire concept is a legacy feature. When I want to access a web browser, I don't want it to take up my entire screen and use 20% of my entire monitor to show me what my browser URL is. What happens when I actually need to do some real work? What happens when I need to bypass all of this junk?

For me, it will probably be easy. I have worked in IT and trained myself on how to get around almost anything. I have learned, over the years, what services are not essential on a Windows desktop, and how to install, manage, and maintain all kinds of different services. But for a person who is basic to intermediary with computers, they will never get passed Metro. They will have their content presented to them in a way Microsoft can control. And instead of the Internet being divided up into different areas operated by different corporations and public interest groups, it becomes very clear to me that Microsoft will showcase a heavy hand in controlling all online content, including multimedia, browsing, search, and social networking. Whereas before people didn't use their services because Google or Facebook may have had an edge, tomorrow people will be led to believe that this is much easier. With no off switch, Metro UI becomes a platform for delivering "online services" as part of the computing experience itself. And in so far that Microsoft could not put a dent in the multi-billion dollar online advertising network run by Google, or take advantage of the benefits of data mining that Facebook has had with their one billion users, they will now use their operating system platform to scoop up hundreds of millions, if not billions of new Windows Live members. To me, this matters.

While I have never had an issue with Google managing my e-mails and search, they also don't control the presentation of all the apps on my desktop. And while I may rely on their online services, I would never purchase an operating system released by them for just that reason. And that brings me back to Metro UI, and the reason why, at least right now, I can't tolerate it.

Here will be my test: If Windows 8 is even significantly slower or more resource intensive than Microsoft Windows 7, I will likely have no reason to upgrade. With a big magnifying glass being placed on my online presence through the integration of Windows Live into my operating system, I won't want to. If my computer boots a few seconds faster with Windows 8, I'll still breathe a sigh of relief that someone isn't trying to sell me zombie flicks directly on my desktop with no off switch.

I won't have as many privacy concerns as others will. If people were upset that Microsoft was going overboard with including Internet Explorer with their operating system, they will be infuriated by the massive takeover of the desktop with intrusive data-collecting applications that make up the Windows 8 Metro UI interface on install. While Microsoft was once a software development company that released products, they have now concerned themselves with maintaining a strong and marketable online presence on the web. They want people using their services on every phone, every gaming console, every desktop, every laptop, and every type of device in existence that uses a micro-processor. For me, this is overboard, and not what I'm interested in spending my money on.

I would have liked if Microsoft came out with an option for consumers: Pay a $100 annual subscription for feature improvements to the operating system. That is a service I would have been willing to buy. And under those circumstances, I'm willing to bet I'd be promptly allowed to uninstall Metro UI and delete the shortcut to it off my desktop; something that will never happen once you examine the changes that have been made between the Windows 8 Developer Preview and the Windows 8 Consumer Preview.

When discussing the new OS with even some of the most technically minded individuals, a guy who designed a Skype app for Windows Phone before the official one was even announced, I found these types of comments:

"Im going to place a shortcut to shutdown.exe -s on my desktop. Although I have my power button assigned to turn it off too."

If that's not being "Vista'd" I don't know what is. But perhaps here are some other considerations:

If this is the most advanced operating system in the world, is it going to even detect whether or not you have a touch screen monitor, and adjust the situation to compensate?

As one other expert put it, why do you have to do "double-backflips" to shut it down?

If the Windows 8 installation asked if you wanted to install Metro UI, would the majority of desktop users currently say no?

Does the operating system showcase more opportunities to market Microsoft online services than it does actual improvements to productivity, usability, and computing power?

How come the only way to close an app is to hit ALT-F4 or CTRl-ALT-DEL, but the option to download TV shows seems to be fully developed? Is this thing like a hotel room menu or something?

Is this OS release inspired by a spur of new innovation or a desire to compete more directly with iOS, Android, Google, Facebook, and Apple?

Does Windows 8 outperform Windows 7?

I'd love to read your comments.

(These are my opinions and they do not reflect on anyone else here at They are subject to change, of course. Here's hoping Microsoft gets it right.)

I installed these portions of Windows Live within my Win 8 Dev Preview. I am able to connect to, read my Hotmail mail, answer my mail, etc. I am having problems connecting to my ISP pop server to check that account, but since this is an early preview, and not my working OS, I am not real concerned. For these "real" chores I use my Win 7 Ultimate OS. I do not have many photos in my Win 8 OS yet, but Windows Live Photo Gallery is working fine as well. Have not (and probably won't) try Windows Live Movie Maker. (minor irritation, Enter does not move cursor to new line so I can not add paragraph breaks when using Win 8 in my forums)

edit: I feel like a fool now. When I entered the correct password for my ISP pop mail it worked fine. Oh well, live and learn. Bottom line, it appears Windows Live will work in this early Win 8 Dev Preview.

HI! I'm an old guy who's brand new to Windows. Just bought an Acer D257 for my adult son. But he has a serious mental illness and wants zero possibility of receiving porn from the Internet or by email. I'M PROUD OF HIM FOR THAT. I was able to delete Internet Explorer and Firefox (that I'm sure 99.9 percent of you think is absurd! He wants the Acer for writing!) but I can't get rid of Windows Live Mail or McAfee or Norton files. Believe me, I realize how important those programs are for "normal" people!

Sure would appreciate your help. (Please don't forget that navigating around in Windows 7 is hardly intuitive for me, OK?) THANKS!

I am used to Outlook Express and when saving an incoming
message I have the choice of which folder to save it to.

Now I have Windows Live Mail and figure it must be the same in
this regard, but I cant find any choice other than ‘Save’ or ‘Save as File’.

So, when I click ‘Save’ it ends up in the Draft folder and
then I have to drag it to the folder I really want it in. How do I save to other folders than the Draft one?

Because I was having a problem with my Verizon email which comes thru Windows Live Mail, I called a Verizon tech. He did not fix the problem I had, but in the process of trying he changed something so that now there is a security symbol on my Windows Live Mail icon and when I try to open it as usual, I get the box which asks "Do you want this to make changes to your computer?" I have to click "yes" to open my mail! I need to know how to get it off the Windows Live Mail only, so I don't want to change the security setting overall. I just want to get it off, so my Windows Live Mail opens up without it as it did since I bought my laptop which is a Dell running Windows 7.


After the last Windows update the type in Windows Live Mail went all funny.
As you will see in the image this only applies to the application type not the type in the view message window.

I did a system restore to before the update and it corrected it.
This screwed up another program that I had just installed to I went back to the original restore point and the error came back.

Anyone have any idea how I can fix this without going to the earlier restore point?

I haven't tried removing and restoring Live Mail because I don't want to lose some of the messages that I have in it right now.

Here's the image....


I was trying to send a 3 page pdf document to friend this morning. It seemed to attach okay, but it failed to send, giving me this message:

I converted the 3 page file to 3 jpegs, attached them to an email and sent them without any problem to my friend.

Will Windows Live Mail support pdf as an attachment?